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Re: Sõnatõlked

PostitusPostitas TavalineKääbik 13:56 14. Mai 2009

Minu teadmiste järgi on ka härjapõlvlane siiski gnoomi taoline, mitte päkapikk, aga muidugi võin ka eksida. Olen suhteliselt algaja :)
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Re: Sõnatõlked

PostitusPostitas Irve 16:00 14. Mai 2009

Kui "Kääbik" oleks dwarfi härjapõlvlaseks tõlkinud, naeraks kõik hästi põhjendatud kaalutlustels päkapikk = dwarf tõlke välja ja põhjendaksid seda umbes nii:
"Kamoon, dwarf on tugev nagu härg ja ongi enamvähem härja põlveni pikkusega. Miks ma peaksin seda elukat mingi jõuluvana päka pikkuste elukate nimega kutsuma?"

Sellest hullemaks saab minna ainult Sõrmuste Isanda filmi esimese osa tõlge, kus need peletised pöialpoisteks nimetati.

Mõistagi võitlen tuuleveskitega ja kutsun neid peletisi ise ka päkapikeks ja härjapõlvlasteks segiläbi.
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Re: Sõnatõlked

PostitusPostitas Ove 2:11 15. Mai 2009

Ma arvan, et kui esimeses ('76 aasta, kui ma ei eksi) "Kääbiku" tõlkes oleks kasutatud sõna "dwarf" tõlkena härjapõlvlast, siis naeraks me end ribadeks, kui keegi mõtleks neid kleptomaanidest jõuluvana abiliste pähe esitleda. Kõik on kinni harjumuses...

Küll aga on mulle jäänud meelde, et härjapõlvlased olid enamasti mingit masti seotud Eesti maa-alustega, kellel minu teada habet mitte ei olnud... See on muidugi tugevalt spekulatiivne jutt...
Tolajuss Mängla
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Asukoht: Little cold place....

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Re: Sõnatõlked

PostitusPostitas Irve 20:30 17. Mai 2009

Ilmselt muinasjututõlke ja sõna praeguse tähenduse kohaselt oleks härjapõlvlane leperchaun.

Siis oleks dwarf lihtsalt kääbus :)
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Re: Sõnatõlked

PostitusPostitas mart 13:03 18. Mai 2009

Ei miski võim, ei miski vägi murra
neid vorme mis on mündit' korra.

Kääbus on tõepoolest korrektne tõlge, aga siis on meil kääbused ja kääbikud.
Ma oletan, et inimene, kes Kääbiku esimese tõlke tegi, valis nimetuse illustratsiooni järgi.
Illustratsioonide peal meenutavad nad tõepoolest "jõuluvana abilisi".

Vaatasin ka päkapiku definitsiooni wikipeediast: "Päkapikud on pisikest kasvu haldjate soost jõuluvana abilised ja laste head sõbrad. Jõulude ajal (detsembris) aitavad Jõuluvana kingituste pakkimisel ja laialijagamisel (sussi või soki sisse) - seda tehakse üldiselt öösiti. Muul ajal hoolitsevad aga metsloomade eest.
Enamasti riietuvad päkapikud punasesse ning kannavad pikki punaseid mütse, mille ots on valge."
Dominus Monstrorum
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Re: Sõnatõlked

PostitusPostitas KEK 6:00 16. Jaan 2010

Irve kirjutas:Ilmselt muinasjututõlke ja sõna praeguse tähenduse kohaselt oleks härjapõlvlane leperchaun.

Tõlkisin sõna härjapõlvlane paari sõnaraamatuga inglise keelde ja vastuseks pakuti mulle - brownie

nüüd võtsin appi imerelva wikipedia...

A leprechaun (Irish: leipreachán) is a type of fairy in Irish folklore, usually taking the form of an old man, clad in a red or green coat, who enjoys partaking in mischief. Like other fairy creatures, leprechauns have been linked to the Tuatha Dé Danann of Irish mythology. Popular depiction shows them as being no taller than a small child.

The name leprechaun derives from the Irish word leipreachán, defined by Patrick Dinneen as "a pigmy, a sprite, a leprechaun". The further derivation is less certain; according to most sources, the word is thought to be a corruption of Middle Irish luchrupán, from the Old Irish luchorpán, a compound of the roots (small) and corp (body). The root corp, which was borrowed from the Latin corpus, attests to the early influence of Church Latin on the Irish language. The alternative spelling leithbrágan stems from a folk etymology deriving the word from leith (half) and bróg (brogue), because of the frequent portrayal of the leprechaun as working on a single shoe.

Alternative spellings in English have included lubrican, leprehaun, and lepreehawn. Some modern Irish books use the spelling lioprachán. The first recorded instance of the word in the English language was in Dekker's comedy The Honest Whore, Part 2 (1604): "As for your Irish lubrican, that spirit / Whom by preposterous charms thy lust hath rais'd / In a wrong circle."

The first ever National Leprechaun Museum will open its doors to the public in Dublin (Ireland) in March 2010. Based in the heart of the city, the National Leprechaun Museum will take visitors deeper into Celtic culture to discover what really lies behind tales of leprechauns, rainbows and pots of gold.

A brownie/brounie or urisk (Lowland Scots) or brùnaidh, ùruisg, or gruagach (Scottish Gaelic) is a legendary kind of creature popular in folklore around Scotland and England (especially the north, though more commonly hobs have this role). It is the Scottish and Northern English counterpart of the Scandinavian tomte, the Slavic domovoi or the German Heinzelmännchen.

Customarily brownies (a type of hob – see hobgoblin) are said to inhabit houses and aid in tasks around the house. However, they don't like to be seen and will only work at night, traditionally in exchange for small gifts or food. They take quite a delight in porridge and honey. They usually abandon the house if their gifts are called payments, or if the owners of the house misuse them. Brownies make their homes in an unused part of the house.

A hob is a type of small household spirit found in the north and midlands of England, according to traditional folklore of those regions. They could live inside the house or outdoors. They are said to work in farmyards and thus could be helpful, however if offended they could become nuisances. The usual way to dispose of a hob was to give them a set of new clothing, the receiving of which would make the creature leave for ever. It could however be impossible to get rid of the worst hobs.

A famous hob called the hobthrust lived near Runswick Bay in a hobhole, and was said to be able to cure whooping cough.

As well as the brownie, another cognate exists in the Scandinavian tomte or nisse; all of which are thought to be derived from the household gods of olden times, known in England as the cofgodas (Old English for "house-gods") of which the brownie and hob are indeed a survival.

Hobgoblin is a term typically applied in folktales to describe a friendly but troublesome creature of the Seelie court.
The most commonly known Hobgoblin is the character Puck in Shakespeare's A Midsummer Night's Dream. Puck, however, is only another name given to a much older character named Robin Goodfellow. However, the origins of his name can be controversial.
Hobgoblins seem to be small, hairy little men who—like their close relative, Brownies—are often found within human dwellings, doing odd jobs around the house while the family is lost in sleep. Such chores are typically small deeds, like dusting and ironing. Oftentimes, the only compensation necessary in return for these was food. Attempts to give them clothing would often banish them forever, though whether they take offense to such gifts or are simply too proud to work in new threads differs from teller to teller.

While Brownies are more peaceful creatures, Hobgoblins are more fond of practical jokes. They also seem to be able to shape-shift, as seen in one of Puck's monologues in A Midsummer Night's Dream. Robin Goodfellow is perhaps the most mischievous and most infamous of all his kind, but many are less antagonizing. However, like all of the fey folk, hobgoblins are easily annoyed. When teased or misused excessively, Brownies become Boggarts—creatures whose sole existence is to play tricks and cause trouble for people. They can be mischievous, frightening, and even dangerous, and they are very difficult to get rid of.

The term "hobgoblin" has grown to mean a superficial object that is a source of (often imagined) fear or trouble. Probably the most well-known example of this usage is Ralph Waldo Emerson's line, "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds," from the essay Self-Reliance.

The Lord of the Rings
In The Hobbit, by J.R.R. Tolkien, Hobgoblins are a menacing, larger and stronger form of goblins. Tolkien later remarked in a letter that through further study of folklore he had subsequently learned that "the statement that hobgoblins were 'a larger kind' [of goblins] is the reverse of the original truth". This mistaken reversal in size on Tolkien's part has generally been followed in other fictional hobgoblins. Tolkien then renamed them as Uruks or Uruk-hai in an attempt to correct his mistake.

A goblin is a legendary evil or mischievous creature described as a grotesquely disfigured or gnome-like phantom that may range in height from that of a dwarf to that of a human. They are attributed with various (sometimes conflicting) abilities, temperaments and appearances depending on the story and country of origin. In some cases, goblins have been classified as constantly annoying little creatures somewhat related to the brownie and gnome.

Goblins can come in any colour but are mainly depicted as green or brown. While they are generally considered crabby, very rarely a story or movie will feature kind goblins.

According to The Concise Oxford Dictionary of Current English, the name is probably derived from the Anglo-French gobelin (which was rendered, in Medieval Latin, as gobelinus), which is probably a diminutive of Gobel, a name related to the word kobold (a German sprite). In addition, there also exist various other alternative spellings of the word goblin, including: Gobblin, gobeline, gobling, goblyn, gobelinus (Medieval Latin).

Hiisi, folletto, duende, tengu, Menninkäinen and kallikantzaroi are often translated into English as 'goblins'. The Erlking and Billy Blind are sometimes called goblins. 'Goblin' is often used as a general term to mean any small mischievous being.

A tomte (Swedish pronunciation: [ˈtɔ`mːtɛ]) or nisse (pronounced [ˈnìsːɛ]) is a mythical creature of Scandinavian folklore. Tomte or Nisse were believed to take care of a farmer's home and children and protect them from misfortune, in particular at night, when the housefolk were asleep. The Swedish name tomte is derived from a place of residence and area of influence: the house lot or tomt. The Finnish name is tonttu. Nisse is the common name in Norwegian, Danish and the Scanian dialect in southernmost Sweden; it is a nickname for Nils, and its usage in folklore comes from expressions such as Nisse god dräng (Nisse good lad, cf. Robin Goodfellow). Other names is Tuftekall, Tomtegubbe or Haugebonde ("mound farmer"), all names connecting the being to the origins of the farm (the building ground), or a Burial mound. Those names are remembrances of the being’s origins in an ancestral cult.

The tomte/nisse was often imagined as a small, elderly man (size varies from a few inches to about half the height of an adult man), often with a full beard; dressed in the everyday clothing of a farmer. However, there are also folktales where he is believed to be a shapeshifter able to take a shape far larger than an adult man, and other tales where the tomte/nisse is believed to have a single, cyclopean eye. In modern Denmark, nisses are often seen as beardless, wearing grey and red woolens with a red cap. Since nisses are thought to be skilled in illusions and sometimes able to make himself invisible, one was unlikely to get more than brief glimpses of him no matter what he looked like. Norwegian folklore states that he has four fingers, and is hairy all over, sometimes with pointed ears. His eyes glow in the dark.

The tomte after Christianization

The tomte was in ancient times believed to be the "soul" of the first inhabitor of the farm. He who cleared the tomt (house lot). He had his dwellings in the burial mounds on the farm, hence the now somewhat archaic Swedish names tomtenisse and tomtekarl, Swedish and Norwegian names tomtegubbe, and the Finnish name tonttu-ukko (lit. "House lot man") tomtebonde (bonde "farmer") and the Norwegian Haugkall "Mound man". Thus, the tradition of giving porridge to the tomte at Christmas be a remainder of ancestral worship.

The tomte was not always a popular figure, particularly during and after the Christianization of Scandinavia. Like most creatures of folklore he would be seen as heathen (pre-Christian) and be demonized and connected to the Devil. Farmers believing in the house tomte could be seen as worshipping false gods or demons; in a famous 14th century decree Saint Birgitta warns against the worship of tompta gudhi, "tomte gods" (Revelationes, book VI, ch. 78). Folklore added other negative beliefs about the tomte, such as that having a tomte on the farm meant you put the fate of your soul at risk, or that you had to perform various non-Christian rites to lure a tomte to your farm.

The belief in a tomte's tendency to bring riches to the farm by his unseen work could also be dragged into the conflicts between neighbours. If one farmer was doing far better for himself than the others, someone might say that it was because of him having tomte on the farm, doing "ungodly" work and stealing from the neighbours. These rumours could be very damaging for the farmer who found himself accused, much like accusations of witchcraft during the Inquisitions.

Mis ma siis teada nüüd sain oli see,
et ühel sarnasel mütoloogilise folkloori osal võib olla väga palju eirnevaid nimesi.

Eesti keelseid nimesi mida siia võiks külge pusida..
ahjualune, härjapõlvlane, kratt, puuk, pisuhänd, tulihänd, hännamees,
koerakoonlane (kobold?)
aidake lisaga...
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